Fire Detector Convos
JOSH LEE
My smoke detectors broke at my house, and so my landlord sent his fix-it-person over to repair them. As we were staring up at this contraption, beeping away at us, he asked me what I did for a living? I told him I was a pastor, and he got excited. He asked what church I pastored, and I told him Imago Dei. He wasn’t familiar with that church, so I described us as being a flavor of church that wouldn’t be for everyone, but for many there is no other church that would embrace them. He looked very perplexed and inquired about what I meant…I explained that there are many at Imago who were made to feel unwelcomed in some churches because they questioned parts about their faith, didn’t believe correctly, were divorced, single past 22, women who were denied roles of leadership, gay folks, trans folks, and allys of the such. He was now on the top of the ladder, fussing with this fire alarm, attempting to stop the chirping. Just as he unplugged it from the electrical connection, he looked down on me at the ground level and asked, and do you think all of those things are moral? With that, the fire alarm started sounding off because the battery was still nuzzled tightly inside of it. I responded over the sounds of the chirping, yes, I believe our understanding of the theological beliefs that have traditionally exiled a lot of these people from their churches has evolved to a place where we can see the dignity and beauty of people to whom we once deemed unclean or unacceptable in God’s eyes. He looked at me confused; his mind was churning. I dismissed myself to the kitchen so he could finish up.
He texted me a day or so later to set up a time to replace the other smoke detector. I mentioned that he seemed taken back by what I had shared the other day, and I was glad to visit over a cup of hot chocolate when he returned to replace the detector. He responded back that he would really enjoy continuing our conversation.
The next day as he was replacing the other smoke detector, he shared with me that he had read on the Imago website that I had gone to Moody. He mentioned that he, too, would like to go there. I asked what made him want to attend Moody. He shared about all of the ways his family is involved with the Rescue Mission here and how passionate he is about serving the under-resourced. Eventually we made it to the dining room table as he asked me questions about my understanding of Scripture. I shared my evolution of my understanding from my days at Moody until now. He would counter respond every so often with a verse that seemed to oppose my views. Then after an hour of conversation, he said, I don’t know what to say to many of your points. You seem very informed, and it seems we both want to seek truth. Perhaps I could talk with a few people and then come again and speak with you. With that, I could see myself in his eyes just a few years ago. I took my last sip of hot chocolate and said, I would be glad to meet with you again but I would like to know your motives in our meeting. Forgive me if I am being presumptuous here, but when I held some of the beliefs you hold now, I made it my mission and found it to be my duty to convince people of the truth as I knew it, the truth about how I viewed scripture, my translations of what it said, and — more importantly for them — to see the sin in their life enough to get them to repent and follow Jesus as I understood him. I said, if your intention is to go and take what I have shared here and share it with some trusted friends who can give you compelling arguments to bring back to me in order to convert me to your way of thinking, then I don’t think our meeting will be very profitable. He looked at me like a deer in the headlights and then said, well I believe your lifestyle is immoral, and I care about you enough to try and understand your truth so I can help you see the truth.
I took a deep breath. I remembered all of the times I, too, had made similar comments to folks I encountered along my own faith journey. I stopped and placed my hand on the table near his and said, Cody, I need you to know, I don’t need you to believe anything I am saying about God. I don’t need you to view Scripture the way I view it, and I don’t even need you to see God the same way I see God. I see God all over in you, even though you view Scripture and sin differently from me. I know you have encountered the same Jesus I have. I believe, no matter how you view Scripture or what you think about a specific theological topic, Jesus is in it and using all of those interpretations and traditions. If I didn’t believe that, I would have some serious issues because that would mean millions of Christians who have followed Jesus over the last 2,000-plus years didn’t really know Jesus simply because they didn’t believe just like me. You see, I see that you love God, and from what you shared earlier you are really passionate about loving people and serving those who are under-resourced. No matter how differently you and I view Scripture or interpret what Scripture is saying, we both at the core of our being are just doing our best to love Jesus and love others.
He heard those words and sat with them in silence for maybe 30 seconds and then said, you’ve given me a lot to think about today. We can’t both be right, so one of us has to have the truth. If you don’t mind, let me think on this and decide if I would want to get together again, and if I do, would you be up for that?
I said I am always willing to continue a conversation, as long as it is just that: a conversation, and not a conversion attempt filled with contempt. With this, we got up from the table and hugged one another and went our separate ways.
I don’t know what will come from this conversation or if it will even continue. But regardless, we were both able to express our convictions in a kind, humble and patient manner that created space for conversation that honored the other person’s humanity and social locations. Jesus was the master of this, dinning with both the religous elite and the outcast of society. Jesus found a way to be generous in his convictions and his conversations. I believe this is exactly why Jesus’s life continues to make an impact over two-thousand years later. May we continue to be generous listeners and generous sharers so that the love of God and people may be seen and known.
Josh grew up in Elgin, IL, a suburb of Chicago. While attending Garrett Theological Seminary for his Masters of Divinity in May 2019 — he served at Kingswood United Methodist. Prior to this, he attended Moody Bible Institute for his Bachelors in Pastoral Ministry in May 2013. Both of these experiences have exposed him to a wide spectrum of theological and social thought.
Since joining our staff in January 2019, Josh's primary role is the Sunday morning service and teaching. He also provides pastoral care, oversight of building and grounds and implementing ways to communicate our mission and vision in the community and partnering with other organizations.